For the discussion of the fourth issue of season 8. Will Willow escape? What will be the the conclusion to Joss' first arc?

Woo hoo!

I need to let this issue sink in a little more - plus read it over again more carefully after my first breathless runthrough - but a few things stood out for me.

1) Satsu gave Buffy the kiss of life with her cinnamon lips, eh? Hee. I wonder if this voids the topc of Xander being in love with Buffy or if that's still in play. The two storylines could obviously co-exist.

2) I love the continuity of Ethan Rayne having been held by the Initiative (or what came after it) all this time. The last we saw of him was in Season 4, "A New Man," when he was led away by Riley's people after having put the magic whammy on poor Giles. So I guess Ethan's now dead? He was shot by the commander before Buffy could get to him and get more info? A pity.

3) I'm dying to know what larger group this commander with the sunset carved on his chest represents. I suspect it's a much bigger force than the Initiative. *Who* could it be? Is there a shadowy group at work behind the scenes? I can't imagine that Buffy's big foe will be........the U.S. army. Not big and grand enough.

4) Flayed Warren and Amy are *still* not done with? Yikes. I'm kind of ready to see the last of them. Loved seeing the face of Amy's evil mother, though. Loved Buffy's eyes going all black as she channeled Willow. Yippee. That was kick-ass.

Loved it. Must read it again and let it steep in the mind and heart a bit more. Oh, and when will Dawn become a regular sized girl and matriculate at Berkeley?? Speaking of Dawn, what was the significance of the cover to the story within? Anything?

First time I've posted, long time lurker.

Sucked to see ethan go out via GSW, I would have thought his death would be by demon or magic. As far as the wacky group with that symbol, traditionaly that symbol represents the morning star, ie satan, but that does not flow with the usual Buffy themes. I am dying to know who they are as well.

One last thought, no episode 5 till august, that's just wrong.

That's where she started channeling Willow! There're always parts I don't get until I read about them here.

I'm also much more interested in the identity of the "Twilight" group. I have a feeling that's not going to be revealed anytime soon, though.

Is the 'channeling Willow' thing new, or had it been established before? If it is new, it seems a tad too Deus Ex Machina for my tastes. Still, it's a minor point, and my life will go on.

I was close with the mystery kiss, but it looks like I went with the wrong Slayerette. Still, great reveal with the chapstick.

As somebody pointed out on the big board, it's similar to the joining spell in Primeval (and Restlest). A mental bond between Willow, Buffy, and Xander was also used in season 7. Still, it took me by surprise.

People were all in a tizzy about the retcon of Warren not having died, but now no one's mentioning it. It's not really a big deal; the dude's inside-out, so of course he must've died at some point.

"Are you bored NOW?"

For some reason, "Dawnie, you know you're not as proportionally strong as you are large," cracks me the hell up.

I love Joss' dialogue for Warren. It's just so zesty and evil. Evilesty? Zesvil?

Seeing inside Willow's mind was quite intriguing. I'm going to go ahead and assume that the Earth, Water, Fire, Chewbacca, and E=MC2 people are the spiritual/magical components of Willow's magical make-up. Even if I'm not entirely correct, I think that's a fun way to look at it.

I absolutely fucking loved the reveal of Satsu having been the one to give Buffy the Kiss of Rejuvenation. At first, I just thought it was some of the good ol' hilarious Buffy small real life moments mixed with big time fantasy excitement humor. "Hnh. Cinnamon." Then I was flipping through #3 again and saw Buffy exclaiming, "CINNAMON BUNS!" and it all came together. That was great.

"Yes sir mister Watcher sir."
"I'll Watcher your butt, lady."
"Your grammar is not so much."

Yay! Buffy fights the Man!

Loved when Buffy finds out she's two miles below Sunnydale. Gives the arc title, "The Long Way Home," even more meaning.

Amy's mom! Awesome! I genuinely thought that was great.

So Amy and Warren aren't done with...I actually dig that. There's so much going on in this issue, it would just feel kind of anti-climactic if, BOOM! and Buffy/Willow/Satsu wipe the floor with their asses.

I love how Buffy and Willow can draw power from each other. We've seen this done before, but remember, it's been a year-and-a-half since "Chosen." They've gotten bigger, better, and unfortunately more arrogant (more on that later).

Ethan's death was...well, the shock of issue, maybe the shock of the arc. Though the Buffy sandwich in #3 comes close. Good to see that Joss is still up to his dirty tricks, and that even though he kills a whole mess of people, it's ALWAYS SHOCKING. That stuns the hell out of me, you know? You'd think it would've gotten old by this point, but nope, I still felt my stomach churning when I saw Ethan dead from General Voll's bullet. And he was a bad guy!

So, Buffy's taking on the human race, eh? Here's where the arrogant thing comes into play. We of course saw Buffy being quite the egotist in S7, though her egotism was well-founded. Plenty of people have problems with S7, but I'm not one of them, so don't expect me to vilify all the plot/character developments from that time period. It was fascinating and logical.

Buffy's arrogance here is also fascinating and logical. She's gotten to the point where she will willingly take up a war against the very people she saves? I also loved how Voll put a pin in her self-righteous, "It's about women and it's about power" balloon. I hate to say it, but a lot of what Voll said was true. Buffy decides what's right and what's wrong and then slays something. It's been one of the most frequent complaints leveled at her characterization in S7.

This is going to be interesting because for once, Buffy might be on the wrong side of the fight. Not that she should be teaming up with demons for destruction like Voll, but that she is willfully antagonizing a situation that doesn't need antagonized. She's gonna fight mankind to save it.

That is...that's fucking compelling.

Is Buffy a dictator?

In any case, another fab issue. The pacing was extremely frantic, but I didn't feel it was convoluted like some seem to have. Two months until the next one? Damn it.

I just had a look on the main page and I'm shocked to see all the disappointed people. Holy crap, this was fantastic. Best issue so far, I think.

That ending is truly great. I'm so excited to see where this is headed. This issued had me chuckling ('your grammar is not so much'), shocked (ethan) and gripped the entire way through. Just awesome.

I also liked that Joss hasn't suddenly forgotten the rule that people can't come back if they died a non-mystical death. That was my main complaint with Warren's concern with Warren's return in issue 3. Sure, it's a retcon but it works ok for me. Except, how did the First appear as him in season 7? (Maybe he later died at some point? He says that was the end of his 'human' life).

Don't think Satsu is the kisser. I think it's one more mislead. My money is on Leah.

Well, DISCLAIMER, I haven't read this issue yet. But I feel pretty confident in saying that in a great many respects Joss' habit of killing off certain characters has most definitely gotten old. Once he's done it so often that it becomes predictable (which I feel by this point it has), then it's just another storytelling cliche... though admittedly a slightly more entertaining cliche than many others, but still.



Okay, I'll raise my hand to be the one to "villify" Season 7. *raises hand enthusiastically*

I don't claim for even a second that ALL the plot/character developments of S7 were wrong/bad, or that there was nothing fascinating or logical about any of what we saw. I will gladly and gleefully claim that Buffy Summers finally and ultimately confirmed her status as my least favorite obnoxious, bitchy, self-righteous egotist of the series, if not television in general. I seriously, deeply disliked her character by the time the series ended. And the biggest reason for that dislike, which had been gradually (and realistically... I don't dispute that she was well written, just written negatively) building pretty much since the series began, was her arrogance and holier-than-thou attitude.

(I'm not here to debate WHY she was/became so arrogant, or whether or not her holier-than-thou attitude was justifiable. Clearly there's a HUGE contigent of fans that feel it was. Me, not so much. None of that is really important here. It's an established part of the character by this point and I don't claim that it was created by "bad" writing. She was/is very well written. I just don't like the person she is.)

Again, haven't read the issue yet, but I'm giddily anticipating reading ANYTHING that puts a pin in Buffy's "it's about women, it's about power" speeches.



*Haunt whistles nonchallantly, pretending not to have an opinion*

My head still churns from reading everyone else's comments.

But one small thing.

Did anyone else thing that the Math Goddess/creature in Willow's mental world look a little like Virginia Woolf?